Q: What brought you to U-M and the Sport Management Program? 
A: I wanted to study something I'm passionate about for the four years of my undergrad time here in college. I specifically chose the Sport Management Program over other colleges where I got into math programs because it’s so unique of an undergrad program.

Q: How did you become interested in sports?
A: I grew up watching sports with my dad because my dad is a huge sports fan. And back then, Yao Ming played in the NBA, and later on Jeremy Lin — Asian players playing at the highest stage of a North American major league. I know I cannot be an athlete, but to me, seeing that meant I could participate in the sport industry here, especially when I found out it’d be possible to combine my analytical problem solving approach and a passion for sports.

Q: When did you figure out you could combine these passions?
A: I watched the movie Moneyball in my junior year of high school. That’s how I knew there was actually a profession like a sport analyst who can work for a professional team from behind the scenes. From there, I discovered several sport management-related programs and definitely Michigan stood out.

Q: What stood out to you about Moneyball? Do you remember when you watched it the first time, what drew you in?
A: I think it was the advantage of having the numbers talk instead of your intuition. It's actually a more rational approach in terms of building the team and managing the team. That’s why I felt I could utilize my strengths in mathematical problem solving and combine that with my interest in sports.

Q: Absolutely. Was math a favorite subject of yours? Was that something you knew that you enjoyed or excelled in?
A: I can't say I'm passionate about it, but I did do well in math, and I participated in several math competitions. I feel like that laid a solid foundation for my college coursework afterwards.

Q: Coming to U-M, what have your Kines and sport management experiences been like?
A: My experience is quite unique for a sport management student because I’m also getting a dual degree in statistics. Sport management for me is more like the professional development side of my undergraduate experience, and that has really helped me to learn how to better communicate and express myself and gather a deeper understanding of sports and organizations in the business world in general. And I feel like that's a good complement to the more theoretical work I have done in the stats department.

I was also a co-president for the student org called Michigan Sport Business Inclusion Community (MSBIC). From that experience, I’ve learned leadership and how to work well with fellow teammates and the student org members – more like life lessons for me.

Q: Very cool. What appealed to you about that group?

A: How tightly connected it is and how people are really close friends with each other instead of acting in a professional setting. There, people are more like teammates who all buy into the notion of promoting diversity, inclusion, and equity within the sports industry. That’s the glue that connects us together.

Q: Are there any classes or professors that stand out to you from your time in SM that you think set you up for success going forward?
A: I’ve taken classes with Professor [Stefan] Szymanski and also Professor [Judith Grant] Long, and I feel like I benefit the most from their courses because the two of them really emphasize the analytical side of the sports industry.

Also, Jeff Carr, a PhD student in the SM program — I talked to him a lot during the time I took SM331: “Business Optimization in Sport” with him because that’s when I was at the very initial stage of the idea of pursuing a PhD. So I reached out to him and asked: 'What's the preparation like for a PhD program? What can I expect if I get into one?'

I also reached out to Professor Doo Jae Park. I was a student in an organizational behavior course taught by Dr. Park (SM332) and talked with him a lot about his experience in a doctoral program and the teaching career he’s having right now.

I’ve also done undergrad research with Professor [Dae Hee] Kwak, and that definitely helped set the stage for me to apply for the summer research program I did at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology last year.

Q: What planted the seed for you to consider pursuing a PhD program? 
A: That was the fall semester of my junior year. Before that I had interned with the Brooklyn Nets over the summer, and I realized I didn’t like being in a corporate setting. Reflecting on that experience now, I feel like I underappreciated it at that time. During the time I brainstormed for my PhD application essay, I reflected on my time with the Nets and realized that I gained the experience and observation of how a professional sport organization and an organization in general operates and the nuances of how teams are formed and the reasons behind their success or failure. So I appreciate that experience now.

But immediately after that summer, I didn't appreciate that experience that much, and I felt like I needed to seek out other opportunities. So applying to graduate school was one of those opportunities.

Q: Can you tell me what it’s been like to do research with Dae Hee Kwak?
A: We were researching NFL bettors — their psychology of placing a bet or their confidence toward their own action, their feeling of control over the bet.

That research has definitely helped me in terms of utilizing computer programming languages like R and Python in doing data analytics work. Professor Kwak gave me the responses from the NFL bettors, and I used those programming languages to gauge any change and also pulled takeaways from the visuals I made of the data. So I was able to apply the knowledge I learned from SM coursework and stats coursework into a research project.

Q: What did you enjoy about that experience?
A: The intellectual thought process, communicating with Professor Kwak, and also working on my own. There was a lot of freedom in exploring that data set. I was able to initiate my own research questions and use the data to answer my wonder about the sports industry in general.

Q: How did you hear about the summer research program you went on to do at MIT?
A: I knew I needed to do something academically during the summer before my senior year so I applied to a bunch of summer research programs. And actually, I didn't get into the official MIT summer research program. But I saw the profile of the person who ended up being my mentor and his research interests and proposed summer research project. I didn’t want to let the opportunity go by. So I emailed him after I was rejected by MIT, and after one interview, I was accepted and able to be on board for a summer.

Q: Wow! Good for you! That's some courage right there.
A: I felt like I had nothing to lose because I was already rejected. What can I lose if they reject me again?

Q: That’s such a healthy mindset. What is your mentor’s research focus?
A: It's about the durable dominance of sports organizations. Like, say the Celtics and Lakers — they have been successful across  many years. We were wondering why they are so successful and consistently successful. And even when they maybe have some down years, it's easier for them to get back up so what factors into that process. We used simulation modeling and a bunch of other machine learning and statistical approaches to try to justify our hypothesis.

Q: Do you have any conclusions yet that you're able to share at this point?
A: This project is probably going to be my first-year thesis for my PhD. So we're still working on that.

Q: Very cool. You mentioned the Celtics and the Lakers – is the research focused on basketball specifically or is it broader than that?
A: We actually have data across multiple sports. We’re focused more on the major league sports in North America and also soccer across the world.

Q: Awesome. So clearly, you liked your experience at MIT enough to then apply for graduate programs there. What stood out to you about that experience, and why you would want to spend more time there working on this topic?
A: I really felt intellectually excited about doing this research. The prospect of living a life of curiosity and constantly exploring really excites me, like back to when I chose my college major. I really want to study something I’m passionate about, and I want to keep learning.

Q: What was it like to be accepted into the PhD Program at MIT, especially after you were rejected for this official summer research program the summer before?
A: I didn't expect this. I didn’t feel I was that well prepared compared to other PhD students in the program. I’d actually already planned to come back to the group and work as a research assistant under the mentor I worked for last summer, for another one or two years, and apply again. But I feel like the connections I made and the work ethic that I demonstrated during the summer really helped. If I wasn't there last summer, they probably wouldn’t even have interviewed me.

Q: But that goes back to your determination to make that summer research program happen, right? I know you said you didn't have anything to lose, but I still think it takes a lot of bravery to even try knowing that you could be rejected twice. 
A: Well, my mentor there is a Michigan alum. He graduated from the Ross School of Business PhD Program. So I feel like there are a lot of connections between us and overlapping interests. I got rejected from other summer research programs as well, but he was the only person I emailed after I was rejected. And this one magically worked out.

Q: We talked about a lot of the choices that you made that led to this opportunity. But if you had to distill some of those things down, what would you recommend for people who might want to take a similar path to set themselves up for success? 
A: I would say, definitely talk to a bunch of people who have similar experience to what you want to have. Talk to faculty who have gone through doctoral training, talk to faculty who are doing similar research to what you want to do.

And try different things. At the same time I was applying for summer research programs last year, I was also applying for summer internships. So don't set a limit on yourself.

Also, it's not a linear path that you can plan from day one of your freshman year. Two years ago, I was doing a corporate internship, and now I'm going to be a PhD student. All of those positive experiences will nurture and help in some capacity.